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@ TFTC (News Bot)
2025-06-04 10:02:13Key Takeaways
In this landmark episode of TFTC, Adam Back and Sean Bill explore Bitcoin’s path to $1 million, focusing on its growing role as pristine collateral in a faltering financial system. Back highlights Blockstream’s infrastructure efforts, from mining operations to tokenized securities, designed to support this transformation, while Bill shares how he navigated institutional skepticism to bring Bitcoin exposure to a U.S. pension fund. Together, they unpack how institutions are entering the space through structured products and Bitcoin-backed credit, with Blockstream’s mining notes offering a glimpse of this new financial architecture. Amid rising debt, inflation, and fiat fragility, the duo presents Bitcoin not just as sound money, but as a strategic reserve asset gaining traction from El Salvador to Wall Street.
Best Quotes
"It's not a stretch to say that Bitcoin could reach parity with gold. That would imply something closer to a million dollars a coin."
"Digital gold vastly understates Bitcoin’s potential, but it’s where the conversation had to start."
"We’re not just building software, we’re solving financial market gaps, one at a time."
"You can wipe out an entire pension fund’s unfunded liability with a 2% allocation to Bitcoin, if it performs as we expect."
"ETF buyers are the new hodlers. They’re not day traders; they’re five-year pocket investors."
"Bitcoin is becoming super collateral, its role in structured credit could help engineer the soft landing everyone hopes for."
"In a world of financial repression, Bitcoin is how the have-nots finally access property rights and savings."
"Emerging markets will be the early adopters of Bitcoin finance because they need it the most."
"You worked for your money. To systematically steal it through hidden inflation is perverse."
"Bitcoin could be the story that saves public pensions, and the people relying on them."
Conclusion
This episode presents a bold vision of Bitcoin as more than sound money, it’s the foundation of a new global financial system. Adam Back and Sean Bill argue that Bitcoin’s role as “super collateral” is reshaping credit, pensions, and sovereign reserves, while a robust infrastructure of financial tools quietly prepares it to absorb institutional capital. As fiat trust erodes, Bitcoin’s adoption will be driven not by hype, but by necessity, and when the shift becomes undeniable, $1 million per coin will mark the start of a new financial era.
Timestamps
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:38 - New ATH
00:02:06 - Sean's Journey Getting Bitcoin Into Pensions
00:03:15 - Blockstream's Evolution Into Finance
00:08:30 - Building Bitcoin Financial Infrastructure
00:14:30 - The Challenge of Conservative Pension Boards
00:17:02 - Bitkey
00:18:10 - Bitcoin's Current Price and Market Cycle
00:24:05 - Bitcoin as Super Collateral
00:27:24 - Unchained
00:30:09 - Cypherpunk Ideals vs Financial Reality
00:34:55 - Pension Fund Crisis and Bitcoin Solution
00:42:29 - The Cypherpunk Banking Stack
00:49:54 - Digital Cash and Free Banking
00:57:06 - Liquid Network and Institutional Rails
01:07:49 - Sean At CBOT
01:22:16 - Bitcoin Futures and Market Structure
01:25:53 - 2025 Bitcoin Price PredictionsTranscript
(00:00) I'm uh permeable, so I'm always astounded that it's not, you know, 10 or 100 times higher. If everybody saw it, the addressable mark, I mean, it would already be 100 200 trillion asset class, right? That's not a stretch to say that Bitcoin could reach parody with gold. That would imply something closer to a million dollars a coin.
(00:18) You see some established public market companies in different countries saying, "Oh, we're going to buy a billion of Bitcoin. We're going to raise and buy 500." Black Rockck ETF. They're even talking about recommended allocations to portfolio managers in the 2% range. Obviously, digital gold would vastly understate the potential of Bitcoin.
(00:38) Gentlemen, thank you for joining me. Of course. Thanks for having us on. Uh Adam, I was just saying I'm woefully embarrassed. This podcast is almost 8 years old and this is your first time on the show. Oh, okay. This is uh but it's an exciting time. Yeah. And you uh really dedicated to podcast. It's been a lot of years, a lot of episodes, right? It has been. Cool.
(00:59) I think we're approaching 700, which is crazy to think. Wow, that is impressive. The uh No, we're talking hit a new alltime high today. Yeah, Bitcoin doing Bitcoin things just as we were on stage uh at the talking hedge kind of asset manager conference uh trying to explain to them why they should put Bitcoin in their uh fund allocations.
(01:23) Yeah, we were discussing it before we hit record and I saw Tur's tweet looked like Tur was at the event, too. Yeah, he was. M so 50% held up they have Bitcoin in their personal account but only 2% or 4% of the funds very few that actually had allocated to Bitcoin. So a lot of them are believers at a personal level but they haven't been able to sell it within their institution you know so they own it themselves uh but they haven't quite gotten the boards to agree yet.
(01:53) So which was a similar situation I was in in 2019 when I first proposed it. You know, I had my experience with Bitcoin. I had a very good experience and was trying to convince uh the pensions in California that they should be looking at adding Bitcoin to the portfolio. Yeah. And it was great to hear some of your background last night, Sean.
(02:11) So, Sean, for those of you watching, uh is the CIO at Blockstream now. Yeah. I am really excited to have both of you here because I've got into Bitcoin in 2013 and nerded out uh on the tech side of Bitcoin distributed system mining full nodes the layered stack that's been built out and so I followed probably all the work that you guys have done at Blockstream since you've been around and it's been really cool to see everything you've done from the Blockstream satellite.
(02:42) I've broadcast some transactions through that before. It's a Jade um uh CLN or excuse me, Core Lightning now. Um the uh liquid and now over the last few years really sort of leaning into the financialization of finance as I like to um to reference it. And so Adam, like how's that transition from being hypert focused towards a more financial perspective on Bitcoin been? Well, actually in our 2014 uh kickoff meeting, you know, with the founders sitting around big whiteboard, we were trying to forward cast what we'd have to do to get
(03:28) a Bitcoin layer 2 for, you know, settlement of assets and Bitcoin working. And one of the risk you know so we thought we'll build the tech and other people issue the assets but like well they might be lazy they might not do it if that happens we'll have to do it ourselves. So there was a lot of situations like that actually where you know you would think there would be lots of people building applications but many people are really just more in business development and a technology is basically a website and a database and
(03:55) you know Bitcoin core wallet on a server or something like that right so we actually ended up building a lot of middleware and getting into asset management a couple earlier steps one was the mining note so we're doing hosting and mining in our own account and what we did when when it was public that we were hosting initially Fidelity was the uh launch customer.
(04:16) They kept coming back to us and saying, "No, we need we need some hosting." And you know, uh, they'd looked around and decided that we were the best. We were we were like, "No, no, we're prop mining. We don't do hosting." But they persuaded us to host them. And then we're like, "Okay, maybe we should expand and host for other people.
(04:31) " And then that became news. And so then a lot of Bitcoiners contacted us and says, you know, I've got like a dozen miners. Can you host them for me? And of course, if you're if you're hosting for thousands of customers, that's a whole you need need a support team. Somebody has got two miners and one of them's crashed or failed, they're very upset, right? It's half the revenue.
(04:52) Whereas somebody's got, you know, 10,000 per client, it's just part of the, you know, maintenance cycle like a big data center. Discs fail 1% a year, you replace them when they die, they raid, it doesn't matter, right? So, it's kind of that phenomena. So we try to figure out well how can we help you know how can we help people do this without creating a you know that painoint and so we designed this mining note concept where it's kind of socialized so that collectively they look like one of the enterprise customers and then we put a 10% buffer in it so that we would eat
(05:22) the first 10% of equipment failure so they wouldn't get you know the drooping hash rate as miners like failed due to age uh for the for the onset And we also figured out how to try and make them a unified market. So, you know, we're selling more tranches into the market. This started in 2021, a three-year product.
(05:45) And um you know, there was some people on the launch branch and then some people 3 months later. So, what we do is look at how many Bitcoin it had mined in the first three months. We buy that and then match it with a 33month contract for the next one. And so the economically equivalent neither dilutive or anti-dilutive for the buyer and therefore they could trade in a unified market even though there were eight sales tranches over the first I don't know like 12 months or something like that and that that market you know it was using initially using uh liquid
(06:17) security tokens uh with uh stalker a European company that does the securitization I mean the legal p